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Post by eyesoflove on Sept 27, 2005 19:42:20 GMT -5
Gawlee, I think this thread is turning much more controversial than I thought it would when I started it lol.
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Post by BonnevilleMariner on Sept 28, 2005 9:43:36 GMT -5
Dang, I come home from work and this thread has run to 2 pages! Good, this board needs a little life, a little spice!
Catdog said "We are all entitled to our own opinions. But when you make contradictory statements about a mans character based on some c_ockeyed observations, you come across as ignorant & ill-informed."
And you're entitled to your accusation, but when you call me ignorant and ill-informed without even reading my second post, you come across as an idiot.
So you think it's impossible for somebody to be a nice person and take themselves a little too seriously at the same time? What one-dimensional world are you living in? I addressed this already. My point was that he strikes me as arrogant proffessionally, as far as his music is concerned. I didn't say he was arrogant personally. Those can be two completely different things and not necessarily contradictory.
"Listening to Bonneville Mariner you would think Jerry Douglas is an egotistical maniac."
Really? Let's see, I shower him with compliments, praise his work, yet add that I think he might be a "bit arrogant." That doesn't sound like an egotistical maniac to me. Are you sure you're reading the right thread?
So you met Jerry once and all the sudden that makes your observations completely valid, yet mine are "c_ockeyed"? Tell me again who's ignorant and ill-informed, Catdog.
Ok Stacy, I probably did infer that you like the song only because of the artists involved. My bad, and you were right to call me on it. I do think, however, that there are a lot of people out there where that is exactly the case. When people have favorite artists they tend to think they can do no wrong at all. I don't have a problem admitting that mine may have their weaknesses.
As far as AKUSfJD goes, my point was to question why the name change. A lot of you have theories- and they're good ones. Like about contracts and labels- even Catdog's thing about the band wanting it because they just love him so much. I just wish Alison or one of the guys would some time address it and give a good answer. I've seen AKUS 3 times solo and once on the Great High Mountain Tour. I've spent many hours in general admission lines with hundreds of other AKUS fans (I'm sure you all know the drill!). One topic that I hear discussed in multiple conversations between fans every time is why "featuring Jerry Douglas." Obviously there are a lot of fans out there that would like to know.
It could very well be explained by one or two of these theories, but on the surface it looks exactly like how I've explained it earlier. Having Alison's name out front is a no-brainer, but I don't like that they feel they have to change the band's name for the dobro player.
"his place in the band was not intended to be a permanent thing & may not be a permanent thing."
That would suck now, wouldn't it? Seriously, I listen to pre-Jerry AKUS and it's just not the same. Like I said, I wish Jerry would just become a permanent part of the band. I think his dobro style fits perfectly with the others and I would hate AKUS to lose him.
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Post by eyesoflove on Sept 28, 2005 11:44:29 GMT -5
I know people who do that, too. It certainly happens.
I still don't think it's a big deal that Jerry's name was included in the band name because he was already a well established, well known, well respected artist in his own right before he became the member of a band. I mean, I wouldn't expect Ralph Stanley to join in with a band and that band not give him special billing...because he's freakin' Ralph Stanley, man. Same with Jerry Douglas. Sure he's not the seasoned veteran that Ralph Stanley is, but he's still pretty far up there. And I really get the impression from each and every member of AKUSfJD that they're just up there enjoying themselves. I don't feel like any one of them feels the need to showboat or stand apart as a great soloist or anything like that. But somehow we all know that as individuals they could make a band of their own. That's one of the things that makes AKUS so special...there's nothing about them that is pretentious. I don't think there's some big philosophical reason behind the feat. Jerry Douglas thing. I honestly believe the band just wanted to use his name so that people realized they had merged together. You're right...Jerry takes them to a different level. I don't think HE thinks that, though. He just seems to me like he gets up there to jam with friends who are all on his level as far as talent goes. I'm in a band myself and we used to have a member that wanted all the glory. For obvious reasons, it didn't work out. He quit on his own, but we've moved on and replaced him and we're a whole new band because of it. Just getting along makes the biggest difference. I honestly believe that if Jerry Douglas was as arrogant as you think he is, AKUS wouldn't be as good as they are and they certainly wouldn't seem to be having as much fun as they do!
Stacy
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Catdog
New Member
Banjo Picker
Posts: 10
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Post by Catdog on Sept 28, 2005 16:27:27 GMT -5
BonnevilleMariner I think you should read your post a bit more carefully. You said you believed Jerry is slighty arrogant. You didn't specify professionally or personally. How would I or anyone else know you meant proffesionally arrogant. What the hell does that mean anyway? Proffesionally arrogant. Do you mean he is good & he knows it ? Is that arrogant? You say I live in one dimensional world. Don't you think it would be one dimensional for any musican to be happy just doing one thing. Everyone in AKUS does all kinds of side work. Alison seems to be on every other cd that comes out these days. Do you think she should just be happy being the fiddle player in AKUS?
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Post by BonnevilleMariner on Sept 28, 2005 16:43:48 GMT -5
Catdog's losing it, folks...
Dude, I don't need to read my post. I wrote my post. But I'll humor you and quote myself:
"he is both nice and conceded-- which I think is possible because his arrogance centers around his music."
i.e., arrogant proffessionally.
Take this guy at my work, for instance. Nicest guy in the world. We go to lunch. We hang out. He's got a great family. He's also the best damn SQL DBA out there. And he knows it. Hanging out with him is great, but spend just a small amount of time working with him and you realize you better not step on his toes. The db is run his way, and he makes sure he gets the credit for it. Though we're equals when we go fishing, at work he's on a higher level. In some respects, that's ok because of his expertise. But in other respects, the pedestal on which he stands is of his own making.
I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand.
And never once did I say the members of AKUS should never branch out. I love their various side work. I simply made the observation that while the others have put off solo ALBUMS (as opposed to a song here or there) to give full effort to AKUS, JD hasn't. The one guy who might end up leaving AKUS doesn't seem to have made the same committment as the others. I don't know- maybe he is a better organizer than Dan or Ron. Maybe he has a better iPaq. I was just making observations.
In the future, please do not put words in my mouth or make connections I didn't make.
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Post by eyesoflove on Sept 28, 2005 17:54:51 GMT -5
Ron Block works at a solo career, actually, and "Forget About It" is considered Alison's solo album...and really "Baby...Now That I've Found You" probably is, too...because, even though the guys are on there, the focus is just on Alison. The CD's don't even mention Union Station on the covers. Anyway, back to Ron, Alison has even mentioned his solo CD's and how he is when he's recording and all that. I think she may even talk about on the Live DVD. And if I'm not mistaken, Dan also has a solo career. It's just that they're not nearly as known for being solo artists as they are for being part of the group...with exception to Jerry because he started out as a solo artist, therefore when he makes a new CD it gets more attention because he's been making his own solo efforts for years now. It's got nothing to do with his devotion to AKUS, I don't think. He should be free to continue doing what he was doing before joining the band whether he considers his spot a permanent gig or not. Again, that's what I think is so great about AKUS...none of them seem intimidated by the other...none of them crave the limelight...they are just as happy seeing one of them be successful as they are being successful themself...they seem genuinely happy to be on stage whether they're doing honors on lead vocal, harmony vocal, fills, whatever.
Stacy
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Post by Jason on Sept 28, 2005 19:46:50 GMT -5
No one is denying that they have had solo albums. What he is saying is that the others, Alison included, seem to have put their solo careers on hold to focus on the band. If you follow the pattern of releases, the last release should have been an Alison album. Instead she chose to make a band record. When you see them live or listen to New Favorite or Lonely Runs Both Ways, you will notice that the only member of the band that always takes a solo during a song is Jerry. I can not think of a single song on either of the albums that does not have a dobro solo in it. Alison has been quoted as saying numerous times that just because she is a fiddle player doesn't mean that every song needs a fiddle solo in it. I wish that the same philosophy held true to Jerry. It really does seem like either through his actions or the feelings of the rest of the band he is held to a higher standard then the rest of them. Jerry, in my opinion, is and always will be a sideman. I don't think that he deserves special billing.
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Post by BonnevilleMariner on Sept 28, 2005 19:50:45 GMT -5
Ok, I think I'm done posting for the day- and I apologize for coming back so quick with replies. That tends to be annoying on message boards, so I apologize to all. But let me make this point before I hit the sack. I don't mean to say that Alison, Jerry, and Ron have put off their solo careers indefinately in order to devote full attention to AKUS. I kinda meant that at the moment they are. What made me think of bringing this up in the first place was an interview Dan Tyminski gave in '03. The following is from that article: "But fans expecting a new Dan Tyminski solo project under the tree on Christmas morning will just have to be patient. “I'm not in a hurry to do the next one,” he says. “I'm waiting till I can get a reasonable amount of time, and then I'll work on another. Right now, I have to put our band first.” To me that says he didn't feel right about pursuing another solo album yet because it might interfere with the band right now. My initial observation was that while Dan didn't feel like he could handle a solo career and AKUS at the same time, Jerry obviously feels he can. Good, bad, whatever. I didn't mean that none of them have ever done solo albums or that they shouldn't in the future. Frankly, I'd like to see Barry Bales produce a bass album. Now wouldn't that be cool? Look, I don't mean to offend anybody- except maybe Catdog . Some of you have given me really good answers to my question about AKUSfJD and I appreciate it. I admit I could be wrong about JD being conceited ( Stacy), and frankly I hope I am. I just go by what I see, read, and hear. And maybe some day my opinion will be as informed and valid as Catdog's. (Catdog, you know I'm only ribbing you because you react so well to it) Perhaps I'll run into Jerry and the gang at Cracker Barrel and we can talk it out over a plate of dumplings. Until then I'll try to be a little more open minded.
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Post by eyesoflove on Sept 28, 2005 21:34:54 GMT -5
I do have to disagree that no one else takes solo breaks during songs....right of the top of my head, "This Sad Song" is more fiddle driven, "Borderline" has a fiddle Break, the banjo stands out the most in "Pastures of Plenty", even the instrumental (which for some unknown reason the name of escapes me right now) has a beautiful fiddle part, "A Living Prayer" is bare bones guitar only, and it seems to me that "If I Didn't Know Any Better" is almost more synth driven, but I can't quite get the sound of it in my head right now. Anyway, I didn't know the animosity toward Jerry's role in AKUS existed so this is all pretty new to me. I've always stood in awe of his talent and I'm also in love with the dobro anyway. I certainly don't see how him making a solo album has affected AKUS, either. I mean, they've just come off of one of the most successful tours of this year, their album has been completed for nigh on one year now, and on top of that almost everybody in AKUS is featured on his album. I guess I just don't see how a person who is supposed to be conceited can open his doors to so many iconic figures to appear on his album. He even has people coming in to do vocals, which further steals the spotlight from him on those songs. I know it's all just opinion, though.
I'm clear now on the "solo career" comment, but it was't that long ago that Ron was working on his album. It doesn't seem to have affected the band because Lonely Runs Both Ways is one of my all time favorite CD's by anyone.
Stacy
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Post by Jason on Sept 29, 2005 10:45:36 GMT -5
I wasn't saying that no one else takes a solo. I was pointing out that in every song on the last two CDs. With the exception of "A Living Prayer" which you correctly pointed out. There is a Dobro solo in the song. There is not a fiddle solo, a guitar solo, a banjo solo, a bass solo, in every song. Yes, they will take a solo, at times, but Jerry has a solo on every song that he appears on. The only reason that there isn't a Dobro solo on "A living prayer" is that he doesn't play on the song at all.
I don't have animosity towards him, I feel that he is unbelievably talented. I just don't think that his contribution is greater to the band then say Dan's. Therefore, I don't think he should get special billing. But for whatever reason that's the way it is. It doesn't mean that I dislike him or won't go to any more concerts. I wonder if the division comes from fans who were used to AKUS before Jerry's inclusion, perhaps we see it more as an intrusion. I am obvioulsy not speaking for anyone other then myself. But I was a fan close to 10 years before the first AKUSfJD CD came out, so maybe that's why I notice it more.
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Post by Monica on Sept 29, 2005 11:57:42 GMT -5
I have been following the posts for the past several days and I would like to join in. My friends and I always discuss the reasoning for the "featuring JD" and the solos. It seems to me that it is driven by Jerry himself, as well as the solos in the shows. Arrogant or not that was the explanation given me. I agree that it is getting old and unnecessary - everyone knows he is there. It just adds confusion to the name. I also wonder if that is part of the reason they don't get played on the radio as much - the name of the band is just too long.
Jason, I have also noticed on the last several records that it is very "dobro driven". I listen to the older stuff with Adam Steffey and the songs seemed more balanced than now. On NF there was very little guitar and/or banjo - but every song had a dobro in it. I personally like the older, more versatile sound as opposed to the new dobro-infused songs. I don't blame them for featuring Jerry - he's unbelievably talented and will probably win CMA musician again this year. But is he better than anyone else in the band? I think Ron is an excellent banjo player but we don't hear it much anymore with all the dobro breaks. They have even changed Atlanta up to include a dobro break in it. I would like to listen to an album or see a show without a dobro break/solo in it.
I also agree that if anyone should be "featured" it should be Dan. But they could all be featured and all take breaks on different instruments. A guy I went to college with said he saw them at a small venue before Dan joined the band and everyone except Alison switched instruments and Barry even played dobro. So they are all talented but maybe just don't have the need to be out front and in your face.
Stacy, you said they have just come off a tour. Aren't they still touring? I looked on the website and there are still shows scheduled. Did I miss something? Just asking.
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Post by BonnevilleMariner on Sept 29, 2005 13:09:49 GMT -5
Interesting take, Monica. It would be cool to see Ron be able to explore the banjo on their songs as much as Jerry does the dobro. Ron's banjo break on "We Hide and Seek" from the live album is short, but it absolutely blows me away. And when he performs it at concerts you can tell he's having a blast. As long as I'm fantasizing I'd also love to see some more guitar-driven songs with some of dan's unique riffs (a la 'Man of Constant Sorrow-guitar solo version). It would also be cool if they added/substituted a mandolin here or there. Anyway, I'm deviating... I do notice quite the difference between their current and pre-JD stuff. I like both styles. Pre-Jerry has a raw, rootsy sound that really gets you into the songs. Since Jerry joined up their sound has become more refined and polished- and obviously packed with substantial amounts of dobro. I honestly can't say which sound I like better, though if I listed my favorite AKUS songs, 9 out of 10 of them would be from the JD era. IMO, next to Alison's voice, it's largely Jerry's dobro that makes them so unique in their genre. What I like to do is burn mix CD's of songs from both eras to get the full AKUS effect. I agree that they may not sound as versitile as they did before the dobro infusion, but I'm hardly complaining. LRBW is my favorite album so far. But you're right, the majority of songs since Jerry's arrival are sometimes inordinately dobro driven. To the extent that it leaves the others out, it ain't a good thing. But AKUS has seen huge success since the addition of Jerry and has greatly expanded their fan base with his help. And we know how much the others respect him. Given all that, I can see why they might be conceding the limelight to Jerry currently. Problem is, if/when Jerry high-tails it, their sound will have to change considerably. It may simply revert back to that raw, versitile sound long-time fans love. But much of the fan base nowadays isn't familiar with that sound, so to these fans it will be an entirely new. My hope is to see him stay, and that the pendulum will swing back to more balance between instruments- and that some day the fJD part of the name will be quietly dropped, so that it can actually fit onto a CD cover. A man can dream, can't he?
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Post by Monica on Sept 29, 2005 16:28:58 GMT -5
IMO Jerry will stay. He's got it made - he gets to do his own records and tours while AKUS is off but gets the big money he can't get on his own. Plus he has gotten a lot more face/name recognition since he joined AKUS.
If he does leave I would love for them to get back to a more traditional sound. I think it would be unbelievable if they could get Chris Thile. He's such an incredible talent! Talk about a different sound.
Have you ever listened to Ronnie Bowman? I have an album he put out probably 15 years ago with Alison playing and singing harmony all over it plus the guys (pre-Jerry) playing on it. He has several out but this is his first one. It is really good and if you like Dan's voice you will like Ronnie's, too. Like you, I try to mix up the sounds of AKUS with different albums to keep things fresh. They release albums so infrequently (I'm not complaining) that you know every breath sound by the time the new one comes out. I just try to keep it new.
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Post by fiddlechick21 on Sept 29, 2005 19:51:42 GMT -5
I love Ronnie Bowman! I have a few of his solo albums as well as a few from when he and Dan were in Lonesome River Band.
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Post by eyesoflove on Sept 30, 2005 10:45:47 GMT -5
I'd say you are right about the tour still going on if you're still seeing tour dates. I don't know why I was under the impressiong tht the European tour wrapped it up. But regardless of that the point I was really making was that the AKUS tour was one of the most lucrative tours this year and I was just stating that as an example of how Jerry's solo career must not be hurting them too bad because of comments that were made that him making a solo album was not very "go team" or whatever.
I still disagree that it's arrogance that gets Jerry's name special billing. I personally love the dobro driven sound they have. I mean, it's what Jerry plays so of course it will be featured a lot more. I don't see how y'all think it would be fair to make Jerry sit out on songs so others can take the spotlight when you think that's what he's doing to other people. Honestly, the dobro has a very overpowering sound. You hear whether it's being "featured" or not. That's not necessarily true for acoustic guitar, fiddle, or even some ways the banjo is played. Like I've mentioned, I'm in a band and we have a dobro player and I often can't stand beside of him when we're singing because I can't even hear myself when I do. It's just loud and unique and attention-grabbing. It may be less of an issue of him showboating and more that your ear just picks up on him. Also, your ear may pick up on it because it rubs you the wrong way, kwim? I also want to point out that while WE may be more hip to Jerry Douglas since he's joined AKUS, that doesn't mean they were the venue that got his name well-known. Obviously, AKUS fans may be new to Jerry Douglas, but he's been playing for like 30 years and was a member of what is now considered the greastest bluegrass band ever (I can't remember what they were called, but the band had Ricky Scaggs, Tony Rice, Jerry Douglas to name a few). That was a lifetime ago. He brought AKUS just as much new recognition as they brought him, in other words. They've all got some degree of solo careers. Jerry's was just already legendary before he joined AKUS so his solo albums will get more of a buzz. But you never know, they may take turns with the solo albums and someone else may be starting on theirs pretty soon. Like I mentioned before, Ron Block was working on his not too long ago. Maybe it's Dan's turn next or something like that. I'm sure if there were a lot of political issues and personal issues going on within the band they would have resolved it.
Stacy
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